I was invited to an N21 "business opportunity for entrepreneurs" by a friend the other day. Light on the details, he promised me a chance to network with his millionaire mentor. I'm always open to new methods for success, so I obliged. Walking through the hotel lobby through to a seminar room. The first hint of what was coming was a sign posted "Network 21".
The first statements stated by the head speaker made out investing in property and shares was for idiots, and it was high risk, with high chance of no money to be made, instead you must "invest in yourself".
This is where it all went wrong.
The spiel continued, consisting mostly of fear tactics and common hypnosis / NLP (Neuro Linguistic Programming) techniques often used to dumb down an audience for hard sales, further insulting my intelligence.
When the speaker asked one of their hypnotic questions the crowd would emphatically and seemingly mindlessly answer back, and even singled me out and prodded me to answer back if I did not get swept up in the craze. It felt extremely unnatural, staged and false.
An instant aura of discomfort came over me, as if I was in a Scientology ceremony crossed with the falseness of canned laughter / audience of a C grade sitcom who would applaud at the least deserving comments.
The only justifiable explanation my mind came up with is that they were either: all acting, all complete idiots, or brainwashed cult. I was extremely uncomfortable and scared, because I'm not an actor, and I'm not an idiot, so you become forced to draw your own conclusions.
Being scared is so far from my natural personality, especially in conjunction with money making opportunities.
Conveniently the speakers repeatedly mentioned to the audience that feeling uncomfortable with this opportunity is perfectly natural.
I have to agree with this, as the sensation of feeling uncomfortable is a basic survival mechanism occurring in response to a specific stimulus. It is an emotional response to threats and danger!
After 30 minutes of installing fear about the current traditional money making markets and repeatedly telling us how much money members make ($60,000 a month from "passive income", plus lavish holidays paid for, plus spending money), but no mention yet at all of any business practices or methods (the scam alarm had gone off in my head long before), they finally mentioned their core business method is to partner with Amway.
There was very little details on any specific business practices or tactics. The only information given was detailing that successful "investors" should follow a similar company structure to one displayed in the presentation. The structure, somewhat unavoidable, yet ironic happened to be a Pyramid shape. They refer to their structure as a pipeline. A more accurate description term might be: pipe dream!
Is Network21 a Pyramid scheme? We're am not specifically stating that (although I did have a major Simpsons "Trapezoid" scam seminar moment), however the presenter's diagram did indicate successful IBOs require several downlines (and the diagram was a triangle/pyramid shape. Many legal proceedings have been brought against Quixtar, Amway and Network 21 related ventures. However fine the line between legal and scam, Network marketing / MLM / using down lines, is not illegal in itself.
It is however hard work, many people lose friends and family in the process, and many drop out from the programs, even after running an enviable business "structure".
Can you make money from Amway? Certainly. You can also make money from begging on the street, or more easily and less risk, according to several studies, marketing your own small business, without relying on building a massive down line to create the riches and easy money. In Multi level marketing your hard work (and money) lines the uplines pockets.
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- Mr Million
- I've dedicated my life to money making ideas. Have sorted through the junk and happily make a living. I enjoy keeping the community informed on all fresh ideas, news and scams.
21 Comments:
The short answer to your thread title is YES.
You claim - Many legal proceedings have been brought against Amway and Network 21 related ventures
Really? Care to name them? To the best of my knowledge there has been two. One is the Les Giblin case, which you mention elsewhere and which I already pointed out your dishonesty in reporting that - failing to report it was settled out of court and was caused by a mistake by Les Gibln's nephew and webmaster. The other was a case in the UK bought by BERR - and also dropped before it even got to court.
That's it. A 15 year old global company involving millions of people and that's it. Yet you dishonestly claim there's been "many legal proceedings".
Earlier in the post you say -
The only justifiable explanation my mind came up with is that they were either: all acting, all complete idiots, or brainwashed cult.
There's another explanation you didn't consider - they know something you don't know. Clearly they can't all be acting, as it would cost a fortune to be paying these folk every week all around the world. Clearly they're not all complete idiots, since many of them are highly successful in other fields, and clearly they're not a "brainwashed cult" since that very concept doesn't even exist except as an urban myth popularised by a few self-promoting folk who make money promolgating the idea. Even a cursory review of peer-reviewed published articles shows the whole idea of brain-washing is BS, and that even the potential results wanted only occur in conjunction with physical threats.
At some point you have to consider perhaps it's you that has misunderstood something, and not all of those involved. From your other postings, which are little more than regurgitations of the discredited claims of others, it appears you're sourcing most of your understanding of the business model from folk who are either dishonest, ignorant, or both.
Try some proper research instead. Instead of reading the online rantings of a handful of disaffected Amway critics, instead read books like Professor Dominique Xardel's "The Direct Selling Revolution: Understanding the growth of the Amway Corporation". He's a former head of ESSEC, one of the world's most prestigous business schools, as well as chief european editor for Harvard Business Review.
Do proper research. Get the facts. Think for yourself. And stop repeating the myths and falsehoods you find through the laziness of a quick google.
There are more than these two businesses operating under pyramid marketing structures.
For starters I suggest you study Neuro Linguistic Programming / Hypnotism. It is real (not in the TV sense). They were definitely using these tactics on the audience. The results are questionable, but the intention is not.
Why was I intentionally made to feel uncomfortable if I did not give a positive response (when claims of making 60,000 a month were made)?
I think what they didnt like was that I WAS thinking for myself.
MM,
1. I'm a trained psychologist. I'm well aware of NLP and other such "techniques". All you encountered was something known by the technical term "marketing".
2. Your words implied there was significant legal action against N21. There is not. Your words continue to imply that N21 and Amway engage in "pyramid marketing". They do not. Pyramid marketing is illegal. There are indeed numerous legal actions against illegal pyramids and you are clearly trying to imply some connection.
Your logic seems to be that because a "model" of the distribution model is pyramid shaped means that the business is pyramid marketing.
The Amway business is no more "pyramid" marketing than any other distribution business. Buy in bulk from the manufacturer. Sell in smaller lots at a markup to wholesalers, who sell in smaller lots at a markup to retailers, who sell in smaller lots at a markup to consumers.
*Exactly* the same. Would you write an article about say, Coca-Cola and claim "Many legal proceedings have been brought against Coca-Cola related ventures." and claim it's accurate because the distribution model for Coca-Cola, when drawn out, resembles a pyramid?
Virtually all distribution chains are "pyramid" shaped. Any business selling a product is part of a pyramid shaped distribition chain. Any business selling a product "requires" a "downline" (customers), either wholesale or retail, buying products in order to profit.
That doesn't make it a pyramid marketing scheme, which is an illegal scheme defined by the fact that you make money not by selling products, but by recruiting people.
Yes it's "marketing". What con men and leaders of cults do is also marketing.
What I experienced at this Network 21 seminar was misleading and did not give an accurate depiction of the risks. Forunately I am not a sucker.
Corporation's organisational structure have a pyramid branching structure.
However to work for coca cola you don't need to buy coke and sell coke to others to be successful in the company.
In terms of product distribution, to purcahse units of their product, one does not need to pay to sign up and be heavily persuaded with dubious techniques to sign up acquaintances.
For me, why should i let somebody else to get rich while im working hard, why dont you just push your self to work harder going on top.
Wow MM, you ruffled some feathers. The Network 21 police is after you now.
N21 is a method / overlay / business model that works with the AMWAY multi-level marketing business. N21 is a support system that is supposed to help you grow your AMWAY business.
As far as I know the N21 system gives you tapes, DVD's, books, methods, etc to help you be successful with AMWAY. They also have a different/alternate technique for growing your AMWAY business that uses the AMWAY system to your advantage.
The main criticism that I have heard is that you end up spending so much cash in the N21 materials that you never make money in AMWAY because you are spending it on N21 stuff. You read quite often that the only people who get rich in N21 are the people selling the N21 materials.
The fun thing is that when you are first invited to the presentations there is no mention of Network 21 - you are told it's a business meeting with some enomous opportunity WHY?
@Anonymous
There was not a mention of Amway until over an hour into the presentation, and the details leading up to the seminar are very shady and obscure the truth.
It is very deceptive.
If they were honest and stated their true intentions up front, and did not try to deceive people they would get more respect. However it is obviously a ploy to trap people into attending.
I agree with MM, these people with N21 has also gone to a another level... teach/selling/using other website companies programmes .... without the programmer's notice... this has plundered into my country ... The head must be eradicated and to support this is to stop the funds by inducing the downline of N21 with the original people from the Up trend ... this is not full prove but it helps tarnish the ill intention scheme.
Just became an amway IBO.. Did some reading before my sponsor came at me with the N21 stuff. It was amazing the psychological manipulation techniques used to try to get people to join N21.
I didn't join and so I was told that my sponsor wouldn't have time for me anymore because they would be busy building their "business" ..
It is a pyramid scheme plain and simple.. Don't buy the products and just sell them and you can't make the money you can by signing up others. Thus the products are just a scam which makes it legal...
The sponsor followed the game plan to a T.. But when I showed the contradiction in their statements they got angry and said that they had never had such trouble with other IBO's taking these "learning" materials..
I will sell enough to get my money back and then leave this scam to those who don't know right from wrong..
Anonymous,
can you elaborate on the "psychological manipulation" examples in a bit more detail?
Also can you tell us about these contradictions you discovered to put holes in their statements?
Since you think it is a scam, and since many of the products are proven to be drastically overpriced, if I was you I wouldnt bother trying to make enough money back, I would quit immediately. I would not support something if I found out it was a "pyramid scheme" and was an absolute scam with glaring contradictions like you believe. You will be losing even more money, time and effort.
i just (10mins ago) got a call from someone i had only once spoken to like a year ago. he proposed a biz for me to join, no details. he shot off some names of the "big bosses" and also mentioned n21. my pc was on and i immediately googled the names and also n21, while on the phone with him....haha...amway came up! i said no and the guy really pressed me. he wanted me to attend a 4 hr talk (i wld have to pay the entrance fee) and when i said no, he was willing to meet me for lunch near my office which is far off from his work location. he then put me on the line with his mentor before i cld say no to that. mentor came on and told me how i can achieve my dreams and all that. when i questioned him on what n21 was abt...no answers. he suggested that we meet over coffee. too funny. i declined them outright, politely of course, but i must say it was not easy to do so. they made me feel obliged and as if they were my mates and all that. but being thick, i said no, and that i rather channel my time and efforts in areas which interest me. that's my story ! thanks for this thread all of you...cheerio...george.
George, thanks for your story. It reeks of desperation doesn't it.
I'm suprised they even mentioned "Network21", when I was invited it was even more deceptive, no mention of their name or true intentions was made at all. Good on you for doing your research first and not being bullied into joining.
Make you pay the fee to go to their seminar? I would not go to another one of their seminars if I was paid $1000.
We all know if you did join, you would be the one calling up old friends pressuring them into joining. That's how it works. A great business will sell itself, it does not need hundreds of thousands of desperate salesman recruiting other salespersons.
I've seen this process up front and in person in the past. Unfortunatly it was a relative who approached me with this venture. After being sucked into a business oppertunity in the past and then being accused of stealing from that person when he decided to quit that business, I realize that the scheme of the N21 and Amway are just that, a scheme where feelings and friendship take a back seat to the almighty dollar. I hope people see these scam artists for what they really are and let them sink. I am totally discusted with any thought of ever going into that kind of fake business venture.
Mr Million
from Wakker Meerkat, George South Africa.
I am from South Africa, went to one of the so called meetings, you know I like you! Your comments were absolutely 100% correct. I will rather stay poor than exploiting my friens and family.
We must protect them from scams like these!!!!!
I am feeling sorry for the people falling into this trap.
Bottom line, network 21 and Amway are scams. Amway is nearly impossible to build, thus network 21 promoting their system as a bonafide means to build amway is a scam as well. No matter what system you use, Amway is not churning out growth in the USA. They can only hope to grow in foreign countries where unsuspecting people are not aware of the scam.
a friend of mine has just become involved in network 21 and because of his pushyness in trying to get us to take part in this fantastic opportunity where my husband will be able to spend his days with us instead of at work and we will be set for life, we are no longer friends. its a pity really.
Dear all,
I am Malaysian ,was actively involved in Network21 year 1998.There were many friend's whom I personally recruited and all of them are not my friend's now ,even the so called leader they said I am a failure-Please whoever out there don't trust N21 they are really scam.
N21 tried to recruit my wife a while back, she asked them outright when approached, "are you affiliated with amway/quixtar/N21?", the recruiter replied with a definitive resounding "NO"...So she went to a meeting & who would have guessed, it was N21. Thus the N21 recruiter had out-rightly & deceptively lied when asked a simple direct question up front.
Sorry, but the lack of transparency in these MLM organizations speaks volumes. I have found over the years that most IBO's etc that have attempted to recruit me to be young, greedy, uneducated, malleable, conceited close minded twits that are just drowning in their own sea of greed filled disillusionment.
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