I was invited to an N21 "business opportunity for entrepreneurs" by a friend the other day. Light on the details, he promised me a chance to network with his millionaire mentor. I'm always open to new methods for success, so I obliged. Walking through the hotel lobby through to a seminar room. The first hint of what was coming was a sign posted "Network 21".
The first statements stated by the head speaker made out investing in property and shares was for idiots, and it was high risk, with high chance of no money to be made, instead you must "invest in yourself".
This is where it all went wrong.
The spiel (and warm up for the hard sell) continued, consisting mostly of fear tactics and common hypnosis / NLP (Neuro Linguistic Programming) techniques often used to dumb down an audience for hard sales, further insulting my intelligence.
When the speaker asked one of their hypnotic questions the crowd would emphatically and seemingly mindlessly answer back, and even singled me out and prodded me to answer back if I did not get swept up in the craze. It felt extremely unnatural, staged and false.
An instant aura of discomfort came over me, as if I was in a Scientology ceremony crossed with the falseness of canned laughter / audience of a C grade sitcom who would applaud at the least deserving comments.
The only justifiable explanation my mind came up with is that they were either: all acting, all complete idiots, or brainwashed cult. I was extremely uncomfortable and scared, because I'm not an actor, and I'm not an idiot, so you become forced to draw your own conclusions.
Being scared is so far from my natural personality, especially in conjunction with money making opportunities.
Conveniently the speakers repeatedly mentioned to the audience that feeling uncomfortable with this opportunity is perfectly natural.
I have to agree with this, as the sensation of feeling uncomfortable is a basic survival mechanism occurring in response to a specific stimulus. It is an emotional response to threats and danger!
After 30 minutes of installing fear about the current traditional money making markets and repeatedly telling us how much money members make ($60,000 a month from "passive income", plus lavish holidays paid for, plus spending money), but no mention yet at all of any business practices or methods (the scam alarm had gone off in my head long before), they finally mentioned their core business method is to partner with Amway.
There was very little details on any specific business practices or tactics. The only information given was detailing that successful "investors" should follow a similar company structure to one displayed in the presentation. The structure, somewhat unavoidable, yet ironic happened to be a Pyramid shape. They refer to their structure as a pipeline. A more accurate description term might be: pipe dream!
Is Network21 a Pyramid scheme? We're am not specifically stating that (although I did have a major Simpsons "Trapezoid" scam seminar moment), however the presenter's diagram did indicate successful IBOs require several downlines (and the diagram was a triangle/pyramid shape. Many legal proceedings have been brought against Quixtar, Amway and Network 21 related ventures. However fine the line between legal and scam, Network marketing / MLM / using down lines, is not illegal in itself.
It is however hard work, many people lose friends and family in the process, and many drop out from the programs, even after running an enviable business "structure".
Can you make money from Amway? Certainly. You can also make money from begging on the street, or more easily and less risk, according to several studies, marketing your own small business, without relying on building a massive down line to create the riches and easy money. In Multi level marketing your hard work (and money) lines the uplines pockets.
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About Me
- Mr Million
- I've dedicated my life to money making ideas. Have sorted through the junk and happily make a living. I enjoy keeping the community informed on all fresh ideas, news and scams.
45 Comments:
The short answer to your thread title is YES.
You claim - Many legal proceedings have been brought against Amway and Network 21 related ventures
Really? Care to name them? To the best of my knowledge there has been two. One is the Les Giblin case, which you mention elsewhere and which I already pointed out your dishonesty in reporting that - failing to report it was settled out of court and was caused by a mistake by Les Gibln's nephew and webmaster. The other was a case in the UK bought by BERR - and also dropped before it even got to court.
That's it. A 15 year old global company involving millions of people and that's it. Yet you dishonestly claim there's been "many legal proceedings".
Earlier in the post you say -
The only justifiable explanation my mind came up with is that they were either: all acting, all complete idiots, or brainwashed cult.
There's another explanation you didn't consider - they know something you don't know. Clearly they can't all be acting, as it would cost a fortune to be paying these folk every week all around the world. Clearly they're not all complete idiots, since many of them are highly successful in other fields, and clearly they're not a "brainwashed cult" since that very concept doesn't even exist except as an urban myth popularised by a few self-promoting folk who make money promolgating the idea. Even a cursory review of peer-reviewed published articles shows the whole idea of brain-washing is BS, and that even the potential results wanted only occur in conjunction with physical threats.
At some point you have to consider perhaps it's you that has misunderstood something, and not all of those involved. From your other postings, which are little more than regurgitations of the discredited claims of others, it appears you're sourcing most of your understanding of the business model from folk who are either dishonest, ignorant, or both.
Try some proper research instead. Instead of reading the online rantings of a handful of disaffected Amway critics, instead read books like Professor Dominique Xardel's "The Direct Selling Revolution: Understanding the growth of the Amway Corporation". He's a former head of ESSEC, one of the world's most prestigous business schools, as well as chief european editor for Harvard Business Review.
Do proper research. Get the facts. Think for yourself. And stop repeating the myths and falsehoods you find through the laziness of a quick google.
There are more than these two businesses operating under pyramid marketing structures.
For starters I suggest you study Neuro Linguistic Programming / Hypnotism. It is real (not in the TV sense). They were definitely using these tactics on the audience. The results are questionable, but the intention is not.
Why was I intentionally made to feel uncomfortable if I did not give a positive response (when claims of making 60,000 a month were made)?
I think what they didnt like was that I WAS thinking for myself.
MM,
1. I'm a trained psychologist. I'm well aware of NLP and other such "techniques". All you encountered was something known by the technical term "marketing".
2. Your words implied there was significant legal action against N21. There is not. Your words continue to imply that N21 and Amway engage in "pyramid marketing". They do not. Pyramid marketing is illegal. There are indeed numerous legal actions against illegal pyramids and you are clearly trying to imply some connection.
Your logic seems to be that because a "model" of the distribution model is pyramid shaped means that the business is pyramid marketing.
The Amway business is no more "pyramid" marketing than any other distribution business. Buy in bulk from the manufacturer. Sell in smaller lots at a markup to wholesalers, who sell in smaller lots at a markup to retailers, who sell in smaller lots at a markup to consumers.
*Exactly* the same. Would you write an article about say, Coca-Cola and claim "Many legal proceedings have been brought against Coca-Cola related ventures." and claim it's accurate because the distribution model for Coca-Cola, when drawn out, resembles a pyramid?
Virtually all distribution chains are "pyramid" shaped. Any business selling a product is part of a pyramid shaped distribition chain. Any business selling a product "requires" a "downline" (customers), either wholesale or retail, buying products in order to profit.
That doesn't make it a pyramid marketing scheme, which is an illegal scheme defined by the fact that you make money not by selling products, but by recruiting people.
Yes it's "marketing". What con men and leaders of cults do is also marketing.
What I experienced at this Network 21 seminar was misleading and did not give an accurate depiction of the risks. Forunately I am not a sucker.
Corporation's organisational structure have a pyramid branching structure.
However to work for coca cola you don't need to buy coke and sell coke to others to be successful in the company.
In terms of product distribution, to purcahse units of their product, one does not need to pay to sign up and be heavily persuaded with dubious techniques to sign up acquaintances.
For me, why should i let somebody else to get rich while im working hard, why dont you just push your self to work harder going on top.
Wow MM, you ruffled some feathers. The Network 21 police is after you now.
N21 is a method / overlay / business model that works with the AMWAY multi-level marketing business. N21 is a support system that is supposed to help you grow your AMWAY business.
As far as I know the N21 system gives you tapes, DVD's, books, methods, etc to help you be successful with AMWAY. They also have a different/alternate technique for growing your AMWAY business that uses the AMWAY system to your advantage.
The main criticism that I have heard is that you end up spending so much cash in the N21 materials that you never make money in AMWAY because you are spending it on N21 stuff. You read quite often that the only people who get rich in N21 are the people selling the N21 materials.
The fun thing is that when you are first invited to the presentations there is no mention of Network 21 - you are told it's a business meeting with some enomous opportunity WHY?
@Anonymous
There was not a mention of Amway until over an hour into the presentation, and the details leading up to the seminar are very shady and obscure the truth.
It is very deceptive.
If they were honest and stated their true intentions up front, and did not try to deceive people they would get more respect. However it is obviously a ploy to trap people into attending.
I agree with MM, these people with N21 has also gone to a another level... teach/selling/using other website companies programmes .... without the programmer's notice... this has plundered into my country ... The head must be eradicated and to support this is to stop the funds by inducing the downline of N21 with the original people from the Up trend ... this is not full prove but it helps tarnish the ill intention scheme.
Just became an amway IBO.. Did some reading before my sponsor came at me with the N21 stuff. It was amazing the psychological manipulation techniques used to try to get people to join N21.
I didn't join and so I was told that my sponsor wouldn't have time for me anymore because they would be busy building their "business" ..
It is a pyramid scheme plain and simple.. Don't buy the products and just sell them and you can't make the money you can by signing up others. Thus the products are just a scam which makes it legal...
The sponsor followed the game plan to a T.. But when I showed the contradiction in their statements they got angry and said that they had never had such trouble with other IBO's taking these "learning" materials..
I will sell enough to get my money back and then leave this scam to those who don't know right from wrong..
Anonymous,
can you elaborate on the "psychological manipulation" examples in a bit more detail?
Also can you tell us about these contradictions you discovered to put holes in their statements?
Since you think it is a scam, and since many of the products are proven to be drastically overpriced, if I was you I wouldnt bother trying to make enough money back, I would quit immediately. I would not support something if I found out it was a "pyramid scheme" and was an absolute scam with glaring contradictions like you believe. You will be losing even more money, time and effort.
i just (10mins ago) got a call from someone i had only once spoken to like a year ago. he proposed a biz for me to join, no details. he shot off some names of the "big bosses" and also mentioned n21. my pc was on and i immediately googled the names and also n21, while on the phone with him....haha...amway came up! i said no and the guy really pressed me. he wanted me to attend a 4 hr talk (i wld have to pay the entrance fee) and when i said no, he was willing to meet me for lunch near my office which is far off from his work location. he then put me on the line with his mentor before i cld say no to that. mentor came on and told me how i can achieve my dreams and all that. when i questioned him on what n21 was abt...no answers. he suggested that we meet over coffee. too funny. i declined them outright, politely of course, but i must say it was not easy to do so. they made me feel obliged and as if they were my mates and all that. but being thick, i said no, and that i rather channel my time and efforts in areas which interest me. that's my story ! thanks for this thread all of you...cheerio...george.
George, thanks for your story. It reeks of desperation doesn't it.
I'm suprised they even mentioned "Network21", when I was invited it was even more deceptive, no mention of their name or true intentions was made at all. Good on you for doing your research first and not being bullied into joining.
Make you pay the fee to go to their seminar? I would not go to another one of their seminars if I was paid $1000.
We all know if you did join, you would be the one calling up old friends pressuring them into joining. That's how it works. A great business will sell itself, it does not need hundreds of thousands of desperate salesman recruiting other salespersons.
I've seen this process up front and in person in the past. Unfortunatly it was a relative who approached me with this venture. After being sucked into a business oppertunity in the past and then being accused of stealing from that person when he decided to quit that business, I realize that the scheme of the N21 and Amway are just that, a scheme where feelings and friendship take a back seat to the almighty dollar. I hope people see these scam artists for what they really are and let them sink. I am totally discusted with any thought of ever going into that kind of fake business venture.
Mr Million
from Wakker Meerkat, George South Africa.
I am from South Africa, went to one of the so called meetings, you know I like you! Your comments were absolutely 100% correct. I will rather stay poor than exploiting my friens and family.
We must protect them from scams like these!!!!!
I am feeling sorry for the people falling into this trap.
Bottom line, network 21 and Amway are scams. Amway is nearly impossible to build, thus network 21 promoting their system as a bonafide means to build amway is a scam as well. No matter what system you use, Amway is not churning out growth in the USA. They can only hope to grow in foreign countries where unsuspecting people are not aware of the scam.
a friend of mine has just become involved in network 21 and because of his pushyness in trying to get us to take part in this fantastic opportunity where my husband will be able to spend his days with us instead of at work and we will be set for life, we are no longer friends. its a pity really.
Dear all,
I am Malaysian ,was actively involved in Network21 year 1998.There were many friend's whom I personally recruited and all of them are not my friend's now ,even the so called leader they said I am a failure-Please whoever out there don't trust N21 they are really scam.
N21 tried to recruit my wife a while back, she asked them outright when approached, "are you affiliated with amway/quixtar/N21?", the recruiter replied with a definitive resounding "NO"...So she went to a meeting & who would have guessed, it was N21. Thus the N21 recruiter had out-rightly & deceptively lied when asked a simple direct question up front.
Sorry, but the lack of transparency in these MLM organizations speaks volumes. I have found over the years that most IBO's etc that have attempted to recruit me to be young, greedy, uneducated, malleable, conceited close minded twits that are just drowning in their own sea of greed filled disillusionment.
I've just been to a N21 meeting. I was told that the guy giving the presentation was an 'emerald' which means he is earning big bucks from his N21 business. He told us we could retire and not have to work again. So my question is why is he still working? He told me he works all weekend and almost every night. He works harder than I do, and seems addicted to this business. If he is so successful, why has he not retired? I think its because his entire business is shaky - people join and leave, join and leave, and he cant stop working for fear of his business shrinking. So, actually its not that 'sure thing' he tells us it is. Just a thought.
I was asked by my father to attend a meeting with him and an old friend, a previous "Big Boss" from BankX. The meeting had no direction filled with mention of how beautiful our house was and the general sweet talk. Only after a good 30min mention was made of Network 21, how the network works and how you can retire at the age of 25...always giving an example. I eventually joined thinking that this would be the only way to get them to leave us be. Worst decision of my life!
Remember...they come in pairs, promise you the world and leave you with a running debit order! Learn from my mistake!
G656- well get motivated- NLP absolutely, if you want to keep your friends- avoid at all costs- I lost lots of mine. Upline interested only in achieving next level regardless of my cost. As a plus though- self help books? Take a look at the n21/Amway tapes etc in some ways saves you the literature review!!!
Interesting, however, how different is it from you working hard for your boss? Aren't you making money for your boss?
All these comments comfirming the network 21 scam or real adsl deal is blowing my mind. Stay away from Amway, they are a cult. Robert Kiyosaki's Amway dealings are also all a scam. The vitamins supplements, the water, the soap detergent, it is all designed to take your money, not make you money.
Ignatius Lau said...
How different is it from you working hard for your boss? Aren't you making money for your boss?
Well, if someone works for a boss and makes 0 dollars in a week, or makes 6 million dollars, their boss likely still gets the same amount, and the big boss does not sell them tapes or charge them to be a better worker.
I have actually made 6 million dollars for a boss in 1 day name 1 Amway person who has come close to that.
Another point, 99% of people in Amway make no money at all, so not only are you better off working for your boss, you're better off begging in the street for change.
I'm of the following opinion: It's not impossible to have this type of business work for you, it is improbable. If you have a full time job, and kids etc... with all due respect forget it! Won't work for you. If you don't have any other real responsibilities and have determination to make it work and LOADS of time...and not to forget... RESOURCES go for it. Unlike it's being MARKETED, it's NOT easy! It's damn tough and you are MOST LIKELY to make a loss for a year or two before making anything, if ever you make a cent at all.
Do your homework, see where is your opportunities before you just rush into it and spend money on a thing that will likely flunk out in a year or less even.
Xocai is the real scam. Is that illegal?
Amway defenders take offense at describing there method of sales and recruitment as akin to a pyramid or chain letter scheme. It is true that Multi Level Marketing as practiced by Amway is not an illegal pyramid scheme. Amway has been taken to court for being an illegal pyramid and the courts have ruled that since Amway does not charge people either for joining Amway or for the privilege of recruiting others as distributors, it is not an illegal pyramid. Illegal pyramids and chain letters have no product. Amway has lots of household products: from laundry detergent to vitamins, from cosmetics to water filters. Amway is a legal pyramid scheme.
I pity these Amway, QuickStar guys... they keep eyeing customers in stores, libraries... they spoil their weekends, even put their current job on threat to meet their sales commitment... Anyways... recently was contacted by Network 21 ... and found out another name.. Guys when will you understand that there are much better ideas to do business.. now this is old, stinking idea and does not work anymore..... in fact its a humiliation that these guys have to go through.... and such money is not worth that make u feel like a beggar...be smart, innovate a new model, new product...
IBOFB,
Guys have you noticed that our friend IBOFB ran out of words to defend N21?
I'm guessing he couldn't keep up with the truth !
Anyway, before i say goodbye i want to let you know that those "business meetings" they invite you to.........they are boring!
Just curious...
When you (MM) attended that meeting, how many people were there? Did they seem to be enjoying themselves? Were they laughing, cheering, clapping, smiling? Or were they sad, depressed, crying, yelling and charging the stage demanding all of their money back? I know I paid nearly 60 THOUSAND dollars for my degree, books, tuition, etc...know what that got me...the right to go look for a job. I've been in Amway for 1 year exactly. Made some great new friends. Tried a bunch of products...like some, dont like others. Spent about 2 grand on various things. Just received my 1099...$1200 plus/minus. SO I am operating my "business" at a net loss of approx $800 / year. Only about $15,000 off of how much I lost in college. I did get a great job though...just not in my field of study (like so many other grads I know) Will I get rich from Amway...odds are probably against me. However, if I do build up a stable business...it actually turns into an asset that provides income whether I continue to work it or not (with some very minor criteria).
I'm bored tonight, so I will lay out a simple math scenario. Lets say the business model makes sense to you, and in your day to day travels you share the model with others and once every 2 months you find someone who appreciates the model and joins as well. Now lets say you consitently use the consumable products and spend approx $150 / month which may equate to about 50 points (pv). Lets also say that you could have bought the same stuff at Walmart for $50 so you are losing a net $100 at first. Seems like a pretty crappy business model. But lets say the person that you shared the model with does the same thing. Now he/she is also losing that $100 net per month, however you have a combined busines now of $300 which equates to 100 PV. You would get a 3% bonus check on the $300 or $9.00. So now you are only out approx $91.00 in your third month. Still not retirement money so lets keep mthe model going. However, now every 2 months, being the good teacher/leader you are, you not only find another person that recognizes the business model, but everyone on your Team (currently 2 including you) enjoys the same success rate. (i.e everyone finds 1 person who appreciates the business model to join every two months and consume the $150 worth of product for 50 points (PV).
(cont below)
Here is where math is always so much fun (the law of doubling numbers) in 14 months, at a rate of everyone who is on your Team, finding/traing 1 person every 2 motnhs to do the same would result in a total Team of 128 people. Assuming 3 even legs of growth (just for simplicity sake) that equates to each leg (42 people) spending about $6400 and approx 2133 Points. Which puts my business at $19200 spent and 6400 points. Still each of us onlyspending our $150 alone. At that volume i will be at the 23% bonus level to be paid against the $19200 spent by my team. The total bonus money paid out to my business would be approx $4416 for the month. Out of that Amway will pay each of my 3 Teams their respective bonuses which will leave me with approx $1536. Now I am doing a little better for my monthly $150 that I am over spending for product. Fortunately math never gets tired. At the same pace for 6 more months (3 more duplication cycles) my entire Team would have 1024 people in it. using the same assumptions as above, my net monthly income would be approx $6000.
Of course, I make it sound easy. if it were, everyone would be doing it. some people get in and dont use any product. Some never talk to anyone. Some read negative things on the web and end up in the witness protection program. I'm just telling you what "could happen" You just have to find the right people who get it, understand math, buying power and networking.
Personally I got in about 14 people in my first year, but they all dont get it, but some do. So my numbers dont match my exmaple exactly...but I'm on my way. So lets say I do 10 x WORSE than my example. That means instead of reching those numbers in 18 months, it would take me 180 months. That's 15 years. Phew.... a long time for sure. But i ask myself this...If I do nothing but work at my 9-5 job for the next 15 years...will they then pay me $6k month for the rest of my life...oh and my childrens lives since this business can be willed to them...without ever having to do anything again other than pay my $50 annual renewal fee? Oh and maybe use $150 out of my $6k monthly check to buy some products each month? I asked my current boss...he kind of laughed at me and told me to get back to work....weird...
Oh, and dont tell anyone, but that 6K per month would grow to about 25k per month over the next 15 years at that same crappy 10x slow growth example.. you know many people making 25k / month doing NOTHING? How about leaving that to their kids who would have to do nothing...and their kids?
So you now what...maybe...just maybe....there was someone at that meeting who was brainwashed....but like they say...if you look to the left, and you look to the right, and you dont see the sucker....more likely than not...its YOU...
this was fun.. I look forward to any and all responses. Heck, if you are the "right" person...I may even put you on my Team...
-Cowboy
"Cowboy", if you want to apply maths, you would realise that model is completely unsustainable, and is a scam, the very definition of a pyramid scheme.
You're talking about a complete pipe dream, and there is no way everyone in your team will consistently build enough people.
It seems you have been brainwashed and sold the plan by some schemer. If you look at it from a realistic point of view, you will realise what you are saying is a complete scam.
Since Network Twentyone and Amway have been operating for some years, we can say for sure that most people have already been prospected to and shown the plan, so those left who potentially might be interested (those who havn't been abused and lack education of the lack of earnings made by the majority of people in Amway) is extremely small compared to the population. You are statistically bound to fail.
Even Amway's official statistics state how little by everyone.
Apart from your pyramid scam maths, Let's look at the facts of what you admit:
"Will I get rich from Amway...odds are probably against me"
"I am operating my "business" at a net loss of approx $800 / year."
"if you look to the left, and you look to the right, and you dont see the sucker....more likely than not...its YOU..."
Going by those statements you have some sense, but you are chosing to ignore it. Go ahead, waste your life in Amway. It just means more money for people like me.
Cowboy,
How much money have you outlayed in recruiting? I bet they fed you the line that its time INVESTMENT.
Plus, to become a better person in your own job, we will network you with a upliner who can make your even more money in your own job. Win:WIN?? no way.
In your $800 loss have you accounted for the cost of 'recruitment' tools, recruitment evenings you host, seminars you have paid to attend, business books that help improve you - because the best way to invest money is INVEST in yourself!
Do yourself a favour and buy some self help books and find a mentor with no vested interest.
I happened into one of these 'Mastermind' Network 21 meeting and at the first mention of AMWAY (an hour in) I got up and left.
Unless you are the first one or 2 in and learn to flog your motivational cd's - forget it
forget money. forget marketing. forget meetings and recruiting. forget products, ibo's, retail price. here's the size of it and this is to all amway ibo's and all recruits considering joining. amway can be summed up in one simple short concise statement of a few sentences. you ready? heres the ironclad truth of amway....IF YOU ARE WILLING TO SELL OUT YOUR PERSONAL MORALS AND VALUES, YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO BE SUCCESSFUL IN AMWAY. IF YOU ARE WILLING TO MISLEAD PEOPLE AND LIE TO THEM BY OMISSION (IN OTHER WORDS, NOT GIVE POTENTIAL RECRUITS AN ANSWER TO THEIR QUESTIONS WHEN IN FACT YOU DO KNOW THE ANSWER), YOU COULD BE SUCCESSFUL IN AMWAY. AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, IF YOU ARE WILLING TO CREATE TENSION BETWEEN FREINDS AND FAMILY BY MANIPULATING THEM, YOU CAN BE SUCCESSFUL IN AMWAY. i was an ibo for a very short time and saw how the so called business works first hand. i was appauled by the lying and misleading that went on in my upline and the uplines of their friends. i am embarrassed to this very day that i was ever a part of something that was so morally bankrupt
You had more credibility when you posted all comments...
Cowboy
When you started putting words in my mouth, and making claims that I never said and other poor logic then you lost all credibility.
I am happy to read and post any of your comments providing they use valid maths (that apply to reality), research on statistics and price of products to disprove any of my main points that most people in Amway don't make money, and that you can buy equal quality products for cheaper from other outlets.
No fantasy realities about best case "what if's" that recruiters tell you that don't apply to the real world, like implying it's easy for everyone to make 50,000 a month in Amway, like they did to everyone at the brainwashing propaganda events I have attended.
My partners brother, who had a great building career became swept up in the quick rich idea of Network 21. After many phone calls and surprise visits by him to convince us of an easier life earning passive income, we still dug our heels in and said NO!
He now avoids us completely and over the months has convinced his parents to become heavily involved. They are now bankrupt after being consumed by the so called dream and dedicating and spending all their time on Network 21. Five years on and the brother is still brainwashed along with the parents. They are not the same family we once had and although I feel they have dug thier own grave, I sometimes wish they would make it rich and be the people I once knew (he is a Platinum IBO)
It has broken our once tight Knit family and is so soul destroying.
I plead with you as I write this comment. Don't be fooled by Network 21.
Cowboy,
You just, literally, defined what a pyramid scheme is. Are you so blind to see that you will forever be losing money? You, as well, are part of someone's team - who is part of someone else's team - and so on. Work your math in reverse. N21 is a complete scam, and they're not even disguising it! My father, a 50+ middle manager, was approached by some N21 "co-owner/team member" and asked me to research the company - so I just found as many contact numbers as I could of people and called 'em up. Everyone of them pushing the same B/S, with extremely vague answers, a lack of anything with substance, and arguably the worst sales tactics I have every experienced. At least Madoff had a solid reputation to stand on when he defrauded people for millions. N21 and Amway are going after the poorest of the poor, offering up a way to eventually make some cash. Of course, the reality of it is is that you'll never make any money.
I have three degrees in Accounting, Finance, and International Business and Economics, and a Master's in Accounting. I will say this to anyone reading: THIS IS A SCAM.
I'm pleading with my dad right now to walk away, but he TRUSTS his N21 "friend," so it's a problem.
thank you for all the post here, it is helpful for me to enlighten my mind not to join this so called SCAM networking business in AMWAY.
Hello,
My experience is so similar to Chris and others in the blog. This guy skpes in from another country and explains the concepts of easy part time business and changes to N21........After 1 hour, the name of Amway comes in.....hahaha, I stopped him then and there and said apologised to him saying that "Please do not ask Amway to call me...."! Well you can guess that I am trying to avoid the person now before I can myself into this rat race scheme.
Kind regards,
Geo
I had literally the same experience as a previous poster. Got a phone call from someone I hardly knew and hadn't seen in nearly a year, she still had my business card, and she gives this vague description of a business I might be interested in and wants to meet for coffee. Turns out it's Amway, which I knew nothing about, and she gives the classic pyramid scheme talk, mentioning their private island in the Caribbean, and how much money can be made. According to her the products are at discount, but after some research it doesn't sound like that's the case . She was cute so I agreed to got to a meeting, but after everything I learned from this site and plenty of others, I'm not going to waste my time.
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